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Clutch Guide! - Heavy Duty, Cushioned, Button. Organic, Ceramic, - Hardtuned.net

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Clutch Guide! - Heavy Duty, Cushioned, Button. Organic, Ceramic, 

28 replies to this topic

#1 Got_Milk

  • Joined:25-March 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:s13 RB25DET

Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

Not sure why there isn't a thread guide on this topic already. (If there is i apologize profusely, just link me up and shut this down) For all you lazy readers, i highlighted the main points in Bold.

Hey guys!

I own a 180sx which is running a Red Top SR20DET. Car is pretty stock, only lightly modded at the moment (FMIC, Exhaust etc)
Future upgrades include a couple of goodies such as T28 Turbo, bigger injectors and Fuel Pump and ECU upgrade. Im aiming for around to 200-220kw mark.

Now the 180 is my daily driver. I use her to run around each day, but i also like to put her through her paces a little and occasionally i make it down to the track. Some of you may be wondering why im divulging such information; the reason is because my current stock clutch is on it's way out and im in need of some advice before purchasing a new one.

My Mechanic has recommended i look for a Ceramic Button clutch as he know's i like to get a little sideways, i've never driven a car with such a heavy clutch (brother's s13 has an organic heavy duty and thats alright). My mechanic said to run it past him before i buy anything 'cause he might be able to source it cheaper.


Would a Heavy duty Organic clutch wear out too quickly if im clutch kicking around the track now and then?

Would a Ceramic button clutch shudder and generally be too aggressive to drive in traffic and park in town?


I don't want to down big money in a Ceramic button clutch only to have it wear out after a few months because i cant drive it on the street appropriately...

Any advice from people with experience would be tops. If you're only going off what ya mate told ya, please leave out your 2 cents! haha :)

Edited by Got_Milk, 16 April 2013 - 02:57 PM.


#2 _R_J_K_

  • Joined:11-December 10
  • Location:Australia ACT
  • Car:Zenki S14

Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

Exedy Sports Organic clutch from Kudos Motorsport. Entry level race clutch, higher than than the Exedy HD button clutches and has a sprung centre.

I had a Exedy HD Organic clutch. It's just a stock clutch with a stronger pressure plate, and doesn't really give much advantage over stock. I took it to the track once or twice and daily drive it and one of the cushioning springs snapped out. Really annoying because it had tons of meat left on it too. I've had friends who have had theirs last a fair while though, even with track use

Also a good chance to upgrade the clutch pivot. Nismo is about $60 from both Kudos and Taark, I think GKTech has made one for about $25 or $30.

I priced up the Exedy HD, it was gonna be about $400, and I thought for the extra $160 I might as well get the Sports Organic. HD has 4 springs really close to the edge (which is why one of mine snapped out), Sports Organic has 6 much further into the centre, and the friction material is much better. Sports Organic feels like a HD but with a more precise friction point.

Edited by _R_J_K_, 16 April 2013 - 03:54 PM.


#3 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

I have recently put in an Exedy stage 2 racing clutch.
It is a 3 puck cushioned button unit. These are the Jap ones with the silver pressure plate bit the gay pink one.
I can't give you a proper run down on how it performs as it is still only 300kms old.
But it is surprisingly light for what it is. Takes a little but to get used to, but you just adjust ya driving style.

#4 Got_Milk

  • Joined:25-March 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:s13 RB25DET

Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

Hey thanks for the speedy reply brother!

I think this is the one you where talking about?:
http://www.kudosmoto...20det-p-36.html

I know it will only be a ballpark figure, but roughly how much for a clutch install do you think im looking at? $300-500? $500+?

Yeh Greens14, aslong as i can adjust to it! I'm a pretty well rounded driver and recon id be able to get the knack of it pretty quick, i just dont want to put in anything and find i could of saved money and alot of heartach.

Edited by Got_Milk, 16 April 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#5 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

You are looking at between 350-500 for an install. Depending on oils used. Factor in flywheel machining etc also.

This is the one I am talking about.
http://www.frsport.c...DET_p_1206.html

#6 s14tom

  • Joined:14-February 10
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:S14

Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:45 PM

I have the exedy heavy duty clutch in mine. Also bought through Kudos. Although im only running some extra boost and an exhaust it still gets a bit of a hard time at the track.
I have done 3 days on track and mine still feels awesome. I also plan to tune my car up in the future and will upgrade if need be but i think this clutch should be fine up to the 180kw mark.

#7 Got_Milk

  • Joined:25-March 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:s13 RB25DET

Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:07 PM

Is that the kit you are running s14tom?:
http://www.kudosmoto...20det-p-35.html

It's hard to say as i can't get a dyno untill my clutch is fixed haha, but i'd say im only pulling around the 160kw mark....

Edited by Got_Milk, 16 April 2013 - 05:11 PM.


#8 pmod

  • Joined:13-May 10
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:Fruity 180sx

Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:43 PM

View Postgreens14, on 16 April 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

I have recently put in an Exedy stage 2 racing clutch.
It is a 3 puck cushioned button unit. These are the Jap ones with the silver pressure plate bit the gay pink one.
I can't give you a proper run down on how it performs as it is still only 300kms old.
But it is surprisingly light for what it is. Takes a little but to get used to, but you just adjust ya driving style.

I got the clutch to replace my thrashed 5-puck sprung Exedy unit (pink variety). I still haven't yet had the opportunity to drive on it, but I've heard good feedback about. Place I got it from was Gripforce Clutches in the US, who have an ebay store (http://stores.ebay.c...pforce-clutches). Ordered on Sunday morning, arrived at work Tuesday morning, all packaged well and as described.

$380 - EXEDY RACING STAGE 2 THICK CLUTCH KIT
$380 - EXEDY RACING CHROMOLY FLYWHEEL
$243 - Shipping cost:
Total = $1003.94 USD

I looked at Kudos, but their website is somewhere between an insult and a joke.

A. They require you to make an account just to get a shipping estimate.
B. In addition to your full address, email and phone number, you have to give them your gender and Date Of Birth.

DOB? Gender? How the f**k is that relevant to an eCommerce purchase of non-restricted material.

#9 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

I got my mine through Gripforce Clutches as well. Awesome shipping times hey!

#10 s13k's

  • Joined:20-August 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:180SX Type X

Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

Speaking of clutches.. but pedal travel is really low.

Any idea what it could be?

#11 s14tom

  • Joined:14-February 10
  • Location:Australia VIC
  • Car:S14

Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostGot_Milk, on 16 April 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Is that the kit you are running s14tom?:
http://www.kudosmoto...20det-p-35.html

It's hard to say as i can't get a dyno untill my clutch is fixed haha, but i'd say im only pulling around the 160kw mark....

Yes Got_Milk, thats the one.
Great to drive with on the street.
Not super heavy under foot.

#12 _R_J_K_

  • Joined:11-December 10
  • Location:Australia ACT
  • Car:Zenki S14

Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostGot_Milk, on 16 April 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

I think this is the one you where talking about?:
http://www.kudosmoto...20det-p-36.html

That's it. No idea about an install price, as I did mine myself. Guess it depends on how honest your mechanic is. The pictures on that site are pretty good, so you can see the difference between the Sports Organic and the HD.

Strongly advise doing the upgraded clutch pivot at the same time. Really annoying having to take the gearbox out to replace the pivot if it breaks.

#13 Stuss15

  • Joined:23-November 12
  • Location:Australia QLD
  • Car:2000

Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:30 AM

I wouldrecommend not to get a button, I'm making 240rwkw with an exedy organic but not sure which type. It feels just like stock and haven't had a proboblem for the last 40 000 clutch inning it hear and there and doing a few track days.

#14 rezzy_S13

  • Joined:09-March 11
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:SIlvia s13

Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:32 AM

This is the clutch i use in my daily NA s13 (most people say i chose the wrong clutch for an NA)

ACT NS1-XTG6 6-Puck Sprung Xtreme Clutch Kit 89-98 SR20DET

http://www.frsport.c...DET_p_8091.html

Can take a good beating and has a really good feel - downside is has a bit of shudder at low rpm with the nismo lightweight flywheel but overall i'm quite happy with it and does what i want when i want and i drive 70kms to work and back in sydney traffic.

#15 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

I had the same Extreme clutch before i got the Button clutch.
Was a good clutch and last about 40K. It handled 200rwkw ok, but as soon as i upped the power to 260rwkw it last all of 3days before it was rooted.
I had a lot of shudder with that clutch also.

#16 pmod

  • Joined:13-May 10
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:Fruity 180sx

Posted 17 April 2013 - 10:14 AM

View Posts13q's, on 16 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Speaking of clutches.. but pedal travel is really low.

Any idea what it could be?

Unless you're running something unusual like a twin plate setup, then it purely comes down to clutch pedal adjustment.
Check the manual for the recommended specs and locations of the adjustment screws.

View PostStuss15, on 17 April 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I wouldrecommend not to get a button, I'm making 240rwkw with an exedy organic but not sure which type. It feels just like stock and haven't had a proboblem for the last 40 000 clutch inning it hear and there and doing a few track days.

Yeah, probably worth discussing organics and buttons further.

OP - there are a few pros and cons to the organic/button discussion, assuming we're only comparing sprung driven plates here.

Weight
There's no real way to avoid a heavy pedal for the most part; an HD Organic uses a similar enough pressure plate to a 5-puck button. I had an Exedy HD Organic on my Supra and a friend's Subaru, and whilst both were the same pedal weight, the Supra was much better due to it having a hydraulic clutch. It was unnecessary and annoying on the Subaru, so we swapped the HD pressure plate for a stock one and it was like oem again, even whilst using the HD driven plate.

People mistake the grab of a button clutch and the 2mm or so take-point as pedal weight, which is incorrect. Now I'm a bit of an asshole for saying this, but people that complain about the pedal weight of a properly setup button are usually weak, don't have their seat adjusted correctly, or really don't know the way to operate a clutch. All those issues can be fixed, and having myself taught little asian girls to drive manual in my 180, I don't consider it a major issue. If an adult male finds it too hard then ffs do more calf-raises and hill runs homeboy.

Controllability
If you have good fine-motor-skills in your left foot, it's easy to control the blend with either an HD Organic or button irrespective of the increased weight; I have no issue driving in stop/start traffic with hills using either. The reason I say motor-skills is that the take-point of a 5-puck is rather small and they grab hard. I like this, since I can easily work with a 2-5mm window of operation and the grab makes for awesome power skids, however people that struggle to control their foot will usually hold the clutch for a long time trying to hit the right point and subsequently get tired.

In saying that the weight can annoy you over a long and busy drive, however you really aren't supposed to blend/ride the pedal with ceramic or cerametallic clutch pucks anyway, as it shreds the flywheel. You're better off just waiting for gaps in traffic and spending less time with your foot on the pedal. Irrespective, if you remove the Nissan clutch damper lines and install a Nismo slave cylinder (or a stock cylinder bored and modified to similar specs) the pedal is a little lighter and has way more feedback, making a button quite controllable and therefore blending and riding viable.

Durability and Suitability
I can't say for a fact whether it was my daily clutch kicks or my habit of holding hills with the clutch, but despite the driving and shifting being fine when I pulled the dead engine, both my oem flywheel and clutch were trashed unpon inspection. One puck was worn past the rivets and the flywheel heavily scored, and you really can't achieve the same with the material of an organic until it wears down to metal. So I've replaced it with a new flywheel and an even more aggressive clutch, as the direct engagement characteristcs suit my driving. I used to kick my Supra plenty, but the bite of the organic just wasn't as nice as the 5-puck.

Edited by pmod, 17 April 2013 - 10:19 AM.


#17 Got_Milk

  • Joined:25-March 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:s13 RB25DET

Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:28 PM

Thanks for all the replys guys!!

Still wrapping my head around it all haha but yeah while i have the clutch out of my 180, ill replace the Clutch Pivot (Thanks _R_J_K)
I think that's what you where talking about bro? : http://www.gktech.co...pivot-ball.html

After reading that detailed explanation provided by pmod i'm leaning towards a button clutch.. I think i will be able to get used to it pretty quick, and might aswell upgrade the clutch to something that will last longer and put up with more abuse..

However I'm still curious about a couple of things;

- Does the number of 'Puks' effect the drivability? Is a 3 Puk button clutch 'Harder' then a 5 or 6 Puk? Or doesn't that really play a role...

- Does the amount of springs in the clutch dramatically effect drivability? Eg 4 springs apposed to 6 springs in the center..

- And finally, when purchasing an after market clutch kit, can i use the stock flywheel in my car after it gets machined? Or is it neccassary for me to replace this with an aftermarket Flywheel aswell? (keeping in mind im on a budget, looking for maximum bang for buck)

Thanks heaps guys, appreciate all the feedback so far! Here's a link of a 5 puk button clutch i was looking at, let me know what you guys think, if it will be suitable for my sort of application: http://www.kudosmoto...20det-p-33.html

Edited by Got_Milk, 17 April 2013 - 01:37 PM.


#18 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

Dont be too worried about a button clutch and drivability.
My one is actually surprisingly easy, and only a timy bit heavier than my previous full faced HD Extreme clutch. The only real difference is the bite and take up travel which is a lot less.
I stalled once or twice, but you get used to it very quickly.

#19 pmod

  • Joined:13-May 10
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:Fruity 180sx

Posted 17 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

What greens14 said. Regarding your questions:
  • Traditionally speaking, the fewer the pucks the harder the bite.
  • The springs dampen the mating process of flywheel and driven plate, but I really can't comment factually on whether 6 smaller springs dampen more effectively than 4 bigger springs, but my expectation is that 6 would be better due to the increased sping surface area and better distribution. I don't know this for a fact though.
  • Flywheel machine is all that's needed. I bought a new flywheel because mine was trashed, and I figured a lightweight flywheel with my forged 9.2:1 CR engine build [still in progress] should be amusing. Could turn out to be a well f**ked idea though haha.
  • That Exedy 5-puck you linked is the same design as the one I had (pink = Australian made). Worked well enough, but the Japanese units (silver) are better. If you buy from the US, it will be Japanese, cost the same or less, be better quality and come with spigot bush, lube and an alignment tool. Very cool. Our dollar is still strong at 1.04USD, so totally worth it.

Edited by pmod, 17 April 2013 - 01:49 PM.


#20 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:29 PM

Yea the jap spec exedy clutch I got was about $550 delivered. The less favourable pink units are at least $600 I think.

#21 Got_Milk

  • Joined:25-March 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:s13 RB25DET

Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:35 PM

Thanks pmod, legend!!

The only thing that has kept me from ordering from the US is postage costs. But if i can get the unit and postage for around the $600-700 mark all up it would work out the same.

I looked on that Ebay 'GripForce' page, i couldn't really find much from Exedy for the sr20det... Heaps of stuff from F1 racing? How do they compare to Exedy clutches?

I just took a geez at JustJap, the supplier i often use... They have this : http://justjap.com/s...&cat=522&page=1

Anyone had any experience with ACT clutch kits?

#22 _R_J_K_

  • Joined:11-December 10
  • Location:Australia ACT
  • Car:Zenki S14

Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:10 PM

View Postgreens14, on 17 April 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

Yea the jap spec exedy clutch I got was about $550 delivered. The less favourable pink units are at least $600 I think.

Just some extra for you OP.

The Exedy Sports Organic is made in Japan and has the silver pressure plate too (despite the picture). A few of my mates who were running the HD have gone to this clutch as well. They've tracked theirs far more than I have mine, and seem to think it does pretty well.

#23 greens14

  • Joined:28-July 08
  • Location:Australia VIC

Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:21 PM

PM Neil from Primal Garage. Forum name "xris". He uses the exedy 3 puck jap spec clutch a lot and advise me to use this also. He uses it on his own car and also his track car, so they candef take the abuse.

#24 rezzy_S13

  • Joined:09-March 11
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:SIlvia s13

Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

View PostGot_Milk, on 17 April 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Thanks pmod, legend!!

The only thing that has kept me from ordering from the US is postage costs. But if i can get the unit and postage for around the $600-700 mark all up it would work out the same.

I looked on that Ebay 'GripForce' page, i couldn't really find much from Exedy for the sr20det... Heaps of stuff from F1 racing? How do they compare to Exedy clutches?

I just took a geez at JustJap, the supplier i often use... They have this : http://justjap.com/s...&cat=522&page=1

Anyone had any experience with ACT clutch kits?

Same clutch as me :) its exactly what Pmod described with the 6 puk button which is what it is - again what pmod said as long as your not a sissy foot its a good clutch man :)

works good for me and i have a NA!!

#25 Got_Milk

  • Joined:25-March 12
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:s13 RB25DET

Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:10 PM

Madddd. Cheers guys!

Probally end up invest in that ACT one in a couple of weeks... Just Jap is only like 2 hours from my house so might cruise down there!

Clutch Pressure Plate Specifications:

- Clamp Load Increase: 50%
- Torque Capacity: 463 (FT/.LBS)

Clutch Disc Specifications:

- 6 Pad
- Sprung Centre
- Recommended for Racing and High Power Street
- Increased Torque Capacity and Spline Life
- Increased Durability
- Lightweight Design For Quicker Shifts
- Quiet Operation
- Reduced Driveline Shock
- Harsh Engagement

Vehicle Compatibility:

- Nissan S13 Silvia/180SX (SR20DE/DET)
- Nissan S14 Silvia (SR20DET)
- Nissan S15 Silvia (SR20DE/DET)

#26 chris2712au

  • Joined:16-December 07
  • Location:Australia NSW
  • Car:S15gt

Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:38 PM

for the street I would normally go an over sized organic 10"... then if It needed more than that go the 6 puk.. the more pucks the easier the engagement.. normally.. or go for a twin plate... if you have got the money.. and can handle the noise..

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